Talk:Machine Gun (Columbia)
Why does it say the Repeater has an extended magazine?Einsteinium99 (talk) 21:23, May 23, 2013 (UTC) Trivia - the real world designation is sub'''machinegun (SMG). Many of them fired modified pistol ammunition which meant shorter range than rifle bullets, but were significantly lighter allowing more repeated shots for the weight. An old Joke for the Thompson Submachinegun was that you "needed two men and a small boy" to carry ammunition for one (referring to the furious way it could eat up ammunition). Testxyz (talk) 08:08, October 29, 2013 (UTC) : We have to go by what the game says. Though both the Rapture and Columbia "Machine Guns" are technically "SMGs", the in-game name is "Machine Gun". Also, technically the in-game designation isn't wrong. It is a Sub-''Machine Gun after all. Geekius Maximus (talk) 14:15, October 29, 2013 (UTC) : Which is why this was talking about 'Trivia' which is often details from real world or other places related to the subject in the game. Testxyz (talk) 14:53, October 29, 2013 (UTC) :::: Technically, we don't have to. Trivia is really relevant to in-game info, with some irl connections. The fact it's an SMG should be clear, and as I said, the designation isn't wrong and there's no correction needed. There's also nothing to compare it to, as there are no other machine-gun type usable weapons in the game (Peppermill Crank Gun doesn't count). Geekius Maximus (talk) 20:29, October 29, 2013 (UTC) :::: Technically it IS about in-game info (you shouldnt automatically assume that people do or dont know the difference). And the Peppermill also IS 'technically' a machine gun. Testxyz (talk) 03:54, October 30, 2013 (UTC) :::::: Actually, the Pepper Mill is an earlier Gatling Gun, not a true Machine Gun (unlike Subject Detla's Gatling, which is a more modern true "machine gun" variant). The Peppermill requires a crank, unlike later Machine Guns. Also, as I said, there's technically nothing wrong with the designation. The "Machine Gun" variants in all Bioshock games are technically all machine guns, whether being SMGs or Gatlings (in Bioshock 2's case). If you want to get ''REALLY ''technical, the "Machine Gun" of Columbia isn't a Machine Gun. It's a "Machinepistole", or Machine Pistol. Geekius Maximus (talk) 06:08, October 30, 2013 (UTC) :::::* I said the Columbia "Machine Gun" is a Machinepistole, being based on the MP-18 (technically both the forerunner of the SMG and the Machinepistole; by designation, it's a machine pistol). :::::* Peppermill =/= minigun. The Minigun is a single weapon, not a class. It's in the class of "Gatling-type" weapons, which the Peppermill also falls under. The Peppermill also requires a Crank, so it's really not "automatic firing" as it requires manually cranking to get repeated fire. Not a "machine gun". The Minigun, on the other hand, requires no cranking whatsoever and fires automatically. :::::* The definition of a machine gun would include automatic firing. A machine gun is a weapon that can fire automatically without any other input for as long as the trigger is pressed. The first machine gun was the Maxim gun, which fired fully automatically without any other user input. :::::: It all depends on definitions versus common usage --- The famous Thompson submachinegun fires pistol ammunition but how many places have you ever heard it refered to as a machine pistol? The Peppermill is mount fixed while on the Motorized Patriot, yet Booker (somehow) is supposed to hold it by the back end and crank halfway up its length with the other hand. The multibarrel miniguns fire with a cranking motion electric motor , etc... A 'True Machine Gun' in its widest sense are all of these - continuous fed ammo, cyclic repeating firing. 'Automatic' is a subset. :::::: Submachineguns are single man weapon versus a crew fired weapon. Machine pistols are oriented towards single hand firing ability. :::::: Testxyz (talk) 08:12, October 30, 2013 (UTC) :::::::: To comment you on a few points: :::::: ::::::MP-18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP_18 Does that look like a pistol in any way ?? Again definitions vs Common understandings..... ::::::MiniGun A Gattling-style "Machine Gun" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minigun ::::::Trigger or crank is really not much difference - fires continuously with high rate automatically (reloading) as long as the ammo lasts. ::::::Testxyz (talk) 08:45, October 31, 2013 (UTC) ::::::*MP = Machinepistole. Designation says it all. On top of that it fires actual pistol cartridges. ::::::*Crank does make a difference''. Notice it's a "Gatling-type", not a "Gatling". The Crank Gun, on the other hand, is a true Gatling, hand crank and all. So it's technically not a machine gun. Gatling =/= Machine Gun. Geekius Maximus (talk) 15:58, October 31, 2013 (UTC) :::::: ::::::The picture on the MP18 wikipedia page says much to the contrary (you might also look at the Thompson Submachinegun entry -- which ALSO fired modified pistol ammunition like many other 'submachineguns' ) ::::::See words 'gatling-style' MACHINEGUN on the minigun wikpedia page ::::::Gatling was the guys name -- SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Jordan_Gatling ("the first successful machine gun.") ::::::Testxyz (talk) 02:28, November 1, 2013 (UTC) :::::*It's the designation that counts. From there we diverted to the seperate "Machine Pistol" and "Submachine Gun" classification. It's the forerunner of both. :::::*"Gatling-style" means it's gatling-style, NOT ''The''''' Gatling Gun. :::::*The Gatling Gun is the name of the gun. It is NOT a machine gun. ::::::::Please stop making me repeat myself ::::::::-- ::::::::Again in case you missed it - THE "Gattling Gun" created by Mr Gatling WAS "THE FIRST SUCCESSFUL MACHINE GUN" therefore every subsequent of that 'gatling-style' is also a "Machine Gun" ::::::::And again it doesnt matter what germans call their models, what the MP18 picture shows can hardly be named a 'pistol' or a machine pistol like a MAC10 .... ::::::::that is a carbine-like weapon See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_pistol ::::::::Its the same with the MP38 and MP40 and certainly the MP42 which can in no ways be called 'machine pistols' by anyone but a german bureaurat (but since they still say 'MP' you are gonna try arent you ???) ::::::::Testxyz (talk) 06:57, November 1, 2013 (UTC) ::::::::::Wrong. First Machine Gun was Maxim gun, as it was the fire fully auto without any other assistance. MP-18 was the father of both Machine Pistols and Submachine Guns. Geekius Maximus (talk) 16:06, November 1, 2013 (UTC) The MP40 and other machine pistols came before Thompson coined the term submachine gun when he released his Thompson Submachine gun. Since then it has been applied to any automatic firearm comparable in size to a carbine. Machine pistol is still used to classify automatics close to pistol size such as the Glock 18C, Micro-uzi, and MAC-10. Advertisers will however advertise MAC-10s and Steyr TMPs as SMGs to drum up sales. And while the gatling gun is a simple machine and a gun, it isn't classified as a machinegun by ATF and other organizations these days because the crank requires a continuous action on the part of the user instead of simply depressing the trigger. Great Mara (talk) 22:52, November 1, 2013 (UTC) You mean MP18 (the MP38/MP40 were developed ~20 years later) And I really wouldnt go by what the ATF classifies or not as people owning guns usually cant get anything straight out of them about their many inconsistant classifications pushed by anti-gun politcos. Testxyz (talk) 07:11, November 2, 2013 (UTC)